Curse

Apollo Smile · Feb 18, 2009, 12:29 AM // 00:29

For anyone who may be intrested.

On February 24th Xfire will have a debate on the nature of Free 2 Play vs. Subscription-based MMOs. ArenaNet will have representation from Randy Price (Senior Vice President of Global Business & Legal Affairs). This could prove to be intresting and provide some insight into the business model aspect of Guild Wars and other MMOs.

http://www.xfire.com/cms/xf_debate/

Gun Pierson · Feb 18, 2009, 12:32 AM // 00:32

VS. nothing to play...

Could indeed be interesting though if they actually give insigths into the business model.

Daisuko · Feb 18, 2009, 02:31 AM // 02:31

too bad the 24th is when the TF2 scout update goes live, so I can't be asked to do anything but try out the new unlockables.

pamelf · Feb 18, 2009, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Mm, sounds interesting. Thanks for the heads up.

pumpkin pie · Feb 18, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

why can't we debate it here on guru now ?

wu is me · Feb 18, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

why can't we debate it here on guru now ?

You may argue it with me but it will cost $5

¿Evan¿ · Feb 18, 2009, 11:12 PM // 23:12

I wouldn't mind paying a monthly fee if I saw quality updates and balancing on a regular schedule.

Age · Feb 18, 2009, 11:19 PM // 23:19

I would prefer not to pay but if there is a lifetime fee of what ever the sum is if reasonable I will pay.

Gigashadow · Feb 19, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

The typical $15/month for an MMO is very cheap given the amount of entertainment provided. It's my cable bill that's way too expensive given what I get for it.

Age · Feb 19, 2009, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

The typical $15/month for an MMO is very cheap given the amount of entertainment provided. It's my cable bill that's way too expensive given what I get for it.

Yeah and there is nothing on worth watching even on those mighty US stations hi nieghbour.Sorry for the OT.

pingu666 · Feb 19, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

i quite like the gw model, as i dont have a large income, plus your not married to the game...

with something like wow, then u really should expect to get more, because you pay more

Winstar · Feb 19, 2009, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Thanks to Billiard's blog I stumbled upon a link to an article which I had forgotten about. It provides some interesting insight on the issue. The following is a link to the full article and a excerpt from it;

http://www.guildwars.com/events/trad...7/gcspeech.php

---------------------------
Don't count on subscriptions

In the early years of the MMO industry, from roughly 1997 to 2001, there were a few big MMOs that had active player populations. By the time we started ArenaNet in the summer of 2000, we knew of at least eighty MMOs that were in development. Based on the success of UO and EQ, publishers were reviewing their portfolios and planning to migrate their existing game franchises to the online world, where they believed they could adopt a subscription model and "make bank". Clearly, it did not work out that way. As more MMOs came into the market, two things changed. First, players now had a choice about which game they would play, and as a result their expectations for polish, content quantity, and service increased substantially. Second, and perhaps more telling for the future of the industry, it became clear that the subscription model forced players to choose a single game, rather than playing many different games.

Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it. Gamers may buy the argument that your MMO requires a subscription fee, if you can tell them what they are getting for their money. This is the legacy of games like Guild Wars, Maple Story, and Silkroad Online, all of which introduced new business models into the MMO genre and were quite successful. The subscription model is still perfectly viable, but the pain threshold is very low now. It's no secret that gamers don't want to pay a subscription fee. If you can convince them that your game offers enough value to justify it, more power to you! But be prepared to defend your decision, often and loudly, and back it up over the lifetime of your game.

Be very aware of the choice you are asking players to make, and the frequency of that choice. In a subscription model you are asking players to make a choice every month, and it is a fairly drastic choice: Stay married, or get divorced? It is certainly the case that if every player decides to stay married every month, you can make more money from each player in the subscription model. But that will rarely be the case, and not something that you should count on. Every month, some percentage of your player base will decide on divorce, and as with marriage in the real word, once you are divorced you rarely get married to the same person again. If you go the subscription route, you'll need to have the confidence that your marriage rate will exceed your divorce rate.

With Guild Wars we ask players to make a choice only one time, and that choice is whether to buy the game, or not to buy the game. While we don't enjoy a recurring revenue stream each month, we do benefit from the fact that most Guild Wars players come back to the game when we release new content, so we are less concerned about players putting the game down for a few months. Players don't have to decide whether to stay married or get divorced, they just have to decide whether they want to play today or not. Beyond the benefit of a lower pain threshold to get into the game, this is the core strength of the Guild Wars business model, and one of the reasons it continues to thrive when many other subscription-based MMOs are struggling.

Innovate with your game play, and innovate with your business model! The two go hand in hand, and are mutually dependent on each other. Decide on your business model first, and then build your game around it. Guild Wars can be successful with its business model because we decided that we would not charge a subscription fee before we wrote the first line of code, and every design and technology decision we made served that purpose. We could never turn Guild Wars into a subscription-based game, just as Turbine could not suddenly decide to eliminate the subscription model for Lord of the Rings Online. If you decide to require players to subscribe to your game, be prepared to build a game that thoroughly justifies it.

Apollo Smile · Feb 19, 2009, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Yeah, I remember readin' that a bit ago. He did make a good point about Guild Wars giving you the freedom to experience other games. Funny, how one of the biggest complaints around here are from people expecting GW to be the ONLY game to keep them busy until Guild Wars 2.

Gun Pierson · Feb 19, 2009, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Funny, how one of the biggest complaints around here are from people expecting GW to be the ONLY game to keep them busy until Guild Wars 2.

That's because no other frikkin game gives me the same satisfaction anymore. And I tried other games, they're the same old in a new dress. I hope Blizzard releases Diablo3 soon, it prolly won't happen though.

Yes we were spoiled with GW.

They brought out a dozen MMO's last year, but not one game like GW. They were all eager to get rich fast by jumping on the pay to play boat. In the meantime ANet dominated the free to play coop rpg market as there was nobody else to compete with and so no other similar games.

Be glad you can still find a lot of fun in other games

pingu666 · Feb 19, 2009, 04:29 AM // 04:29

if i take a break from gw i play something entirely different

il2
various race games
latestest fps like doom/quake/left 4 dead etc

pumpkin pie · Feb 19, 2009, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by wu is me

You may argue it with me but it will cost $5

you owe me 5 ectos for replying to my post

anyway, just some interesting reads and graphs and where Free to Play MMO gets their revenue from.

Top 10 Revenue Models for Free To Play Games

The Forge on MMO Subscriptions vs. Free to Play with graphs if i know what they mean lol too lazy to figure out the graph.

and so i was reading about the top-10 revenue models for free-to-play mmorpg, and i remember that WoW is using at least half of those thing mention, they charge fees to enter tournament, they sell expansion packs, they sell real life item (t-shirt etc), they have RMT thingy for instant pay to recustomized your character and are ad supported etc.

"When we were first going to make World of Warcraft, we wanted to make it free and advertising supported". The problem was that the business environment at the moment of the launch was not appropriate and "as we researched market conditions, we realized that wouldn't support us".

so the question is, why are they still charging their players monthly fees?

just curious.

wanmoke · Feb 20, 2009, 05:23 AM // 05:23

They're charging them because they tapped the giant gold mine of gaming and are greedy people. And people still keep paying them to play the game.

On topic: It seems morally wrong to have to shell out extra money to play a game you've already bought. True, that money goes towards paying employees for customer support and dealing with reports of naughty behavior and such, but then again after my experience, I'm not that fond of playing with other people.

Gigashadow · Feb 20, 2009, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

That's because no other frikkin game gives me the same satisfaction anymore. And I tried other games, they're the same old in a new dress. I hope Blizzard releases Diablo3 soon, it prolly won't happen though.

Yes we were spoiled with GW.

They brought out a dozen MMO's last year, but not one game like GW. They were all eager to get rich fast by jumping on the pay to play boat. In the meantime ANet dominated the free to play coop rpg market as there was nobody else to compete with and so no other similar games.

Be glad you can still find a lot of fun in other games

If you're really aching for an MMO and don't mind burning $50, you'll get about 1 month's worth of fun out of WoW. Even if you aren't a big fan of leveling (and I certainly never have been), I was very impressed with 70-80, it was surprising really. I canceled after that though (I don't raid, and the PvP in that game is beyond awful), but I have no regrets about playing.

I'm thinking about trying out LoTR and D&D Online, I've never tried either one. Time to see if they have a free trial.

MithranArkanere · Feb 20, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

I've heard they planning to add fees or paid features to Battle.net.

Battle.net is used now and it's a success. Some of the games that can be used for free in Battle.net are being sold even now.

"Pay once" is the key and will always be. People prefer to know what are they paying for and not having to care about money again.

BenjZee · Feb 20, 2009, 03:48 PM // 15:48

I don't konw really, i prefer not paying a monthly subscription. Guild wars has this criteria but i may just be playing it becuase i enjoy this game alot more than other online games ive tried